Help with a vintage Horizon

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Help with a vintage Horizon

New member , I'm trying to see if this Horizon is ligit

Raider_77

Raider_77

Raider_77

Raider_77

 

Raider_77

I can't find an example of a maple fretboard on a Horizon.It looks bound.It needs refretting as is has some dents on a few.Is it a Real McCoy custom?

Pushead



Everything looks to be legit. I've never seen a maple board Horizon, but the logos, and body shapes look correct. It would not surprise me for it to be a special order. Especially considering it's sporting an OFR (though that may have been a replacement considering how new it looks.)

Late 80s to 1990 based on the head stock shape.

Raider_77

Thanks Pushead nice collection you have btw

Kas

That logo looks wrong, it's missing the 5 square dots after the "Horizon" script.  I can't recall ever seeing maple on that era Horizon either. If it's legit then I think that is the "lawsuit" head stock which was 87-89-ish but I defer to Pushead who is the most knowledgeable ESP guy I have ever come across. Also the fret dots are centered instead of on the low E side with vertical double dots at the twelfth fret.

I read that logo was inspired by home pc's coming into their own so it looked like old pc font and the dots were the execution indicator that you would get when you ran Dos commands.

mehegama

It is legit, however it is a restored one, it was for selling in Japan and was a proper beater. Someone got it and restored it. My concern would be the lines that separate the wings from the main body.

Raider_77

Yes that and also the neck being straight.If a neck through is out and the rod won't straighten it out its toast.The guy wants a grand for it shipped and it's looking too rough for that much.One hit mark is on the cool 80s looking computerized logo- HORIZON.It also needs frets replaced.I gave him a solid offer $750 plus $100 to ship it from Russia but he still wants a grand 

mehegama

a grand??? no way. your offer is good as it is.

jt76

The guitar looks legit, IMO he wants to much for it.  if it was in very good condition at a local dealer were you could go and try it out. I would say the price might be acceptable, however shipping from Russia and including the visual condition, it is definitely over priced.  I have seen a shop in Russia selling a lot of nice vintage and often odd ball or rare ESP's.  They are always way overpriced, and returns over a problem would certainly be difficult,  I steer clear of this.

 

I think all the sinclair trems were recessed.  The OFR is surface mounted,  so I it was probably original. At this time Esp did a lot of custom guitars for trade shows, dealer requests, and just a lot of custom shop orders.  In addition they had a lot of different models that only went to certain markets   I have seen Kramers that were Marked ESP, It is very possible this was made when ESP was making the Kramer "American" neck thru guitars.   Kramers had OFR,  and were often surface mounted. It could also explain the maple neck.   A while back I saw one that was branded ESP but had the kramer neck inlays.    It is entirely possible that it was being built for kramer as kramer was shutting down and got a horizon headstock shape and logo instead.

 

 

 

 

 

mehegama

Well here is a pic from how it was before the restoration. It was a non recessed sinclair one and in these cases you can simply put an OFR without any issue. It is a japanese order but as I said it was a proper beater and the splitting of the body from the wings really scare me. Also the price is way off. Many times off from the original selling price.

 

Raider_77

I agree with all you guys.I have an ebony & rosewood board but want to throw in a maple with them that is why I wanted that axe.Its the real McCoy & mega rare.I will have all 3 types when I get a maple.I like a nice maple fretboard and how they look feel & sound.

You are right about those Kramers & ESP's relationship in the 80s.Those hockey stick maples look incredible and highly sought after these days.In the late 90s you couldn't give them away lol.Funny how things come back in

jt76

kramer stagemaster - looks kinda familar

I actually saw one of these for sale a while back that had an esp shape head stock and esp logo, but the inlays were this kramer shape,  I do not remember what was inlaid at the 12th.  

it is strongly rumored (possibly fact ) that both Ibanez and Esp made focus guitars for Kramer and that  ESP made the neck through american series models for kramer.  I have owened a few kramer focus guitars that felt very much like ESP built guitars.   In fact I feel like the LTD line showed up about the same time as the focus series was discontinued.  Perhaps ESP had a few extra craftsman they did not want to put out of work.   But that is my own personal theory.  

 

 

If you do end up buying it, I would be interested to know how the experience with the seller is. 

 

mehegama

Kramer Stagemasters are pretty much Horizons with Kramer headstocks and inlays. They were ghost built by ESP. The one above is a japanese order horizon, it had a sinclair and was seriously beaten. This guy got it, changed the pickups and bridge and gave it a cleaning. I would not pay more than 700 for the condition it s in.

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