Indonesian H3-1000?!?!

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Indonesian H3-1000?!?!

Hey guys. Been gassing hard for a Horizon 3 in LTD line. We finially get one and I went to order one and upon checking out photos I noticed that it was made in Indo! A 1000 series made in Indo is not what I expected at all. When did this start? I backed out of the purchase because of this. Is it going on across the board on all models? I am very disapointed and hope this isnt going to be the norm. Does anyone have one of the Indo H3's? I haave played some Indo made guitars and there is just no consistancy. Ones ok the next sucks. I love the Korean made ltds and own several.Thankls all  \m/  \m/

Pushead

One of the ESP Vice Presidents replied about this in a thread a few weeks ago. (Jeff M)

https://www.espguitars.com/forums/1963220/posts/4380156-is-this-an-authentic-ec-1000-what-does-the-serial-say-about-it

91horizon

Thanks Pushead bro. Much appreciated

91horizon

Kind of a standard answer there. I wouldnt expect the VP to say Indo production isnt as good as Korea but any way you slice it Indo just isnt as good. Im very disappointed with their decision. Iwould gladly pay an additional $50 or $100 to have a korean made guitar. In any event I didnt buy the H-3. I ended up just buying a Lynch 2018 LTD Kamakazi which IS made in Korea lol. Stoaked!

Nathan S.

That is disappointing. A big selling point of the ESP (and e2) brands is being made in Japan, just like a big selling point of the 1000 series, for those not willing to pony up ESP bucks, was being made in Korea. Basically viewed as the next best thing to being made in Japan. Now, the 1000 series is being made in Indonesia, may as well just buy a 200 series and save a bunch of bucks.

91horizon

I totally agree Nathan. They say it's only some models but that's how it starts. Looks like used market only from now on. Korean made is my cutoff point. I won't buy Indo or china made.

Pushead

Do you think the builders in Indonesia are only capable of building 200 level guitars, or do you think with the right materials, time and higher expectations, that they could build higher quality guitars?

Are American and Japanese builders better than builders in the rest of the world?

I had a 400 level EC Baritone that was made in China and it was just as nice as my older 400 MH that was built in Korea.

91horizon

Hey pushead. I guess in time Indo should improve like Korea and Japan did but right now they are too sporadic. You'll get a really good one and the next one you pick up will be bad with terrible fret leveling, issues with paint Etc.

I've been playing in collecting guitars for 30 years and have owns over 400 and the current time I own about 200 with no Indonesian or China made guitars because the quality just isn't there. 

Right now in my eyes the best Elders are the Japanese with the Americans right behind them. The Japanese just seem to put more Pride into their product. The American stuff is way overpriced because of the cost to build in the United States. The Korean stuff is pretty close to the United States from my experience. I have early Korean made LTD guitars that are almost equal to the japanese-made. I have no problem with korean-made stuff and own about 50 korean-made guitars.

Nathan S.

I'm sure it's just a stigma thing for me and a lot of others, but I just don't think I could pay 1000 level $$$ for Indo made product because ESP wants  to cut costs.

Let me pose you this...if ESP decided to stop all Japanese production, and move their ESP production to Korea, would you pay ESP kind of money for Korean produced product? 

 

Whatsayyou Pus?

Jason B.

I just got a 2019 Ltd Snakebyte and it's a nice guitar...plays well, sounds great..very happy with it. 

I was nervous about the change as well. but, I'm happy with mine. 

I also have the GH-600. Both a pretty good guitars. 

I remember Korean models years ago were not very good.....took some time. I think the same is true for Indo's.

I'd like to see some other replays from 2019.

Pushead

Would you pay E-II kind of money for an LTD made in Korea?

Is your question about ESP Standard/E-II guitars made in Korea, or the CS level guitars that are the ESPs of today?

91horizon

No I wouldn't pay that much for a Korean made but they are excellent guitars. My original question was about the ltd h3 1000 series being made in Indonesia rather than Korea

91horizon

Actually I did just pay $1200 for a new George Lynch Kamikaze IV and it's Korean made so that's not that much less than an E-II series lol.

Nathan S.

I guess when I say ESP, I am referring to ESP standard/E-ii. Im old fashioned, its still ESP to me. I won't even get into custom shop money lol.

To answer your question, if E-ii prices are going up proportional to Korean LTD and I was in the market for new then yes. However if Korean LTD is rising and E-ii is not, than no I wouldnt. I couldn't tell you because I really haven't followed new pricing much on any of them for the last couple years.

Pushead

Nathan, there talk that the old ESP Standard and current E-II guitars aren't fully built in Japan. Some people have suggested that the woodworking and fretting are done in China before being shipped to Japan for final assembly.

I have no idea if that's true. But it hasn't stopped me from buying them. Who cares if the guy pushing the buttons on the CNC machine is Chinese, Japanese or Mexican? If someone who is talented enough is assembling the guitar, that's all I'm worried about.

I expect an E-II/ESP Standard to be at a consistent level. I'd also expect that from LTDs across their respective series levels. I suspect the management from ESP understands that as well.

91horizon

As far as the 1990s I'm pretty sure they were all done in Japan. Now the newer stuff I can't say. Nothing surprises me now after being around this business for 40 or so years lol. I know BC Rich did it for years. Guitars were being made in Mexico and finished in USA lol.

Leland B.

I own a Horizon 3 and just purchased an H3-1000. Overall, the quality isn't bad. the frets are finished nicely, but there are some issues, like residue from the adhesive for the frets still on the fingerboard, and the "binding" isn't great. just glancing over it, you might miss it, but if you're actually checking the guitar out, it has issues with the binding. On mine, you can see where they overcut the fingerboard in some places, and the "binding" (it's painted on) has some scratches where they painted over said cuts. I can post photos later.

Allan B.

For what it's worth, my Indo EC1000VB is every much on par with any American made guitar I've owned.  I might have gotten lucky, but the quality of mine is excellent.

Pushead

I would not pay $1000 (+ -) for an Indonesian made guitar.

People used to say that about any guitar made outside of the United States.

 

I wonder if the used market for Korean made 1000 series LTDs will go up?

Not long term.

 

I wondered why the EII lines comes with a sticker that saya made in Japan and its not permanent printed on

The old ESP Standard guitars also had stickers that said Made in Japan. To my knowledge, tt was never printed under the clear coat.

 So much uncertainty for such expensive products. 

If you think guitars are expensive, try buying a cello. Or a tuba.

Allan B.

 

Country of origin shouldn't matter much as log as the expected quality is there. I've owned a couple lower end ltd models made in indonesia and they were good guitars for their price range and they had their use. But being from the lower end LTDs, Indonesia was always associated with the cheaper beginner or beater guitars.

Having said that I am bummed out that the 1000 series are now Indonesian made, mostly because of the cheaper expectations that comes with that fact. I have yet to try one out but I don't think I would ever buy one. Seems like a step back for the 1000 series. I would not pay $1000 (+ -) for an Indonesian made guitar.

LTD is not the only company moving manufacturing from Korea to Indo for their higher end imports.  PRS SE Customs are getting made there now as are the Jackson Pro series Soloists.  I'm sure there are others that have done the same.

Origin has always mattered to people, but the perception changes over time.  When I was a kid something made in Japan was cheap junk, now we pay a premium for an instrument made there.  When Japan got too expensive companies moved to Korea and we all complained expecting Hyundai guitars but now covet one made there. Now that Korea is getting too expensive we make the same statements about Indonesia. When that gets too expensive we will be saying the same thing about Vietnamese made instruments lol  It will always be that way.

Yet all the while our $1,100 iPhone is made in China and we love them.... 

 

 

G Michael H

Just my 2 cents on the country of origin topic. To me, it comes down to only this.. Does the brand contracting manufacturing have a reputation of making sure that build quality is properly funded/invested or do they have a reputation of underfunding builds and then hang that (often left out point of interest) on the country of origin? Cuz it's not about where it's built, it's whether or not it's a business model that ensures a level of expectation and constantly strives to consistently deliver products indicative of the prestige brand contracting services? Without naming names, I don't think ESP has or will ever stoop to the low level of fender /epiphone international builds (oops). Cort indo builds amazing cost conscious instruments but the key to it all is the build budget they have to work with. Same for China builds. You want quality, you pay for it and given the Chinese have been building instruments of all kinds for around 3500 years, I'd say it's not their first rodeo. The Chinese built SE HOLLOWBODY I & II are a perfect example. A properly funded product line manufactured to the expectations of the brand on the headstock. Stigmas associated with nations in particular without scrutinising the brand investment strategy is flawed. No matter a guitar is built, the outcome is the result of the brands efforts, nothing to do with location. FYI, Cort has all the woods and capacity to store and dry tone woods unlike any other company, it makes perfect sense for brands to relocate there. They are fully capable of building guitars on par with any tier of expectation. The onus falls to the brand and any doubts about a brands intentions or results is theirs to own, not a country. Cultural bias and racial discrimination comes any many forms. 

Dean K.

Well now I feel like I made a mistake buying my indo mh350fr. I’ve always wanted an esp but as mentioned prices for high end or custom shop is pro level costs . My stblk model has the same issues with the binding but over all it’s one of the better neck through guitars I’ve ever seen or held fast neck intonation was out of whack and frets needed minor leveling but over all nice action on the guitar and the active emg 81-85 were nice sounding ! For what I payed I couldn’t have asked for better but than again if I want better out of a super strat down the road I’ll be looking USA or japan made 

JD H.


  1. That is very disappointing.  I have owned Indonesian and they're junk (finishwork, innards, and frets) compared to Korea.  I've specifically been planning to buy a Korean ESP Horizon-III.  I will have to search harder, I'll never buy Indo or China again, if not just for the finish work but general human rights violations that I cannot, in good conscience, knowingly support.

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