Need CITES Help - URGENT

Updated
Crazyfrase

Hi folks,

I am in need of some help from ESP. I have a guitar being held due to CITES issues in the UK. It appears my export permit was filled out for the wrong species of Rosewood. I need confirmation from ESP to confirm the exact species of rosewood on my guitar so I can reapply for the correct permit.

 

The guitar is a 1996 made Ouija custom shop with a rosewood board. Can someone from ESP please contact me with the species? I’m guessing Indian rosewood (dalbergia latifolia) but I need this in writing from ESP themselves. I have tried contacting them with no luck so far and it is quite urgent otherwise I fear the guitar will be seized.

 

can anyone help??

 

Thanks

Pushead

Yikes. Did you try to call ESP USA? They may not know, but may be able to put you in contact with someone at ESP Japan.

Here's a link (in English) to the ESP Japan Contact page. I have no idea how often they check it.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=https://espguitars.co.jp/&prev=search

Pushead

Jeff K. Anything you might be able to do to help?

(I have no idea if tagging works on this forum)

Jeff K.

Tagging works (as I just found out).

Pushead

Hope it didn't wake you up. I was just hoping it might give you a notification when you logged in next.

Thanks for the help, I thought it was important.

Big Daddy B

Do you have a certified botanist in your area that can give you a written report? That might be another option. I had to do that hear once as part of a claim on a tree that my neighbor damaged.

Jeff K.
Crazyfrase wrote:

Hi folks,

I am in need of some help from ESP. I have a guitar being held due to CITES issues in the UK. It appears my export permit was filled out for the wrong species of Rosewood. I need confirmation from ESP to confirm the exact species of rosewood on my guitar so I can reapply for the correct permit.

 

The guitar is a 1996 made Ouija custom shop with a rosewood board. Can someone from ESP please contact me with the species? I’m guessing Indian rosewood (dalbergia latifolia) but I need this in writing from ESP themselves. I have tried contacting them with no luck so far and it is quite urgent otherwise I fear the guitar will be seized.

 

can anyone help??

 

Thanks

Crazyfrase, this is the first time to my knowledge that an individual's ESP guitar has been held due to CITIES. We will need to talk to the folks on our production team and likely the custom shop itself. I'll forward your post around ESP and get some info sent your way ASAP.

Crazyfrase

Thank you so much Jeff.

 

The guitar was shipped from Australia to the UK but unfortunately the export permit was raised for the wrong species.

 

all I require is an official email/letter from ESP confining the species used back then. A long time ago so a big ask but really appreciate any help you can offer. Customs can be ruthless with these things and being such a rare guitar I am quite worried.

 

thanks

Jeff K.

I've already sent an email around to the team. It's 7AM here, so give them a chance to have coffee.  

Crazyfrase

Champion.

thanks very much

Crazyfrase

My email address is frasergpark@gmail.com which can be used for any formal responses so I can pass it on to the CITES team if that’s ok

Sephiroth

Glad to know for a fact that they are checking. I bought in a KH guitar to the UK only a few months back. Started the Cites process back in June and wondered if they even bothered looking at the certs. Will definitely make sure now on my future purchases.

How did they know it was a different rosewood?

Did you also pay for an import cert? When I spoke to the UK department that deals with cites, they said I needed an import certificate aswell which was another £74. Once the export cert was done, I needed a scanned copy of it to go with my import application, and once they sent me the approved documents I then had to send the originals to the seller to go with the guitar so there would be no hold up.

Hope you get the answers you require quick crazyfrase.

SteelEdge
Crazyfrase wrote:

Hi folks,

I am in need of some help from ESP. I have a guitar being held due to CITES issues in the UK. It appears my export permit was filled out for the wrong species of Rosewood. I need confirmation from ESP to confirm the exact species of rosewood on my guitar so I can reapply for the correct permit.

 

The guitar is a 1996 made Ouija custom shop with a rosewood board. Can someone from ESP please contact me with the species? I’m guessing Indian rosewood (dalbergia latifolia) but I need this in writing from ESP themselves. I have tried contacting them with no luck so far and it is quite urgent otherwise I fear the guitar will be seized.

 

can anyone help??

 

Thanks

Any kind of rosewood in any guitar (or furniture or whatever) need CITES to be imported.Bubinga too.

Also, the CITES must be presented at customs for importation, if guitar doesn't already have CITES, you can't make one.It has to be issued by the manufacturer regarding the concrete guitar, with invoice and serial or individual identification. You can make a CITeS for a guitar you already own (a fucking nightmare) and then export the guitar.

I seriously doubt ESP USA is gonna make you a CITEs, same thing if you buy second hand or from a shop.You can't import rosewood guitars unless it comes already with a CITES, and a 1996 Ouija will never have one, unless guitar is here and you issue one.

 

That's why some concrete guitar, specially collectibles ones with rosewood, have dramatically increased its price in EU / UK.You can't legally import them anymore from outside EU/UK.

 

Hope this clears things out: https://reverb.com/news/new-cites-regulations-for-all-rosewood-species

HateEvent

This is interesting. I have just sold a guitar with rosewood from here (UK) and it is going to the USA.

When I phoned up the agency here regarding CITES, I was advised that some of the specifics could be omitted from my application as the guitar is ‘pre-convention’ by being before 02-01-17. I also phoned the UK distributor for the guitar (Bill Lewington - it’s a Dean USA) and they told me that they have no requirement to provide any information pertaining to the specifics of the rosewood source due to that reason, and that they wouldn’t have it or be able to trace it anyway.

I’ll let you know how my application progresses of course, but on the phone the agency seemed quite insistent that leaving some boxes blank wouldn’t be a problem as it’s an ‘older’ instrument.

Basically they said it’d only be an issue if it was Brazilian Rosewood as it comes under a different appendix.

SteelEdge
HateEvent wrote:

This is interesting. I have just sold a guitar with rosewood from here (UK) and it is going to the USA.

When I phoned up the agency here regarding CITES, I was advised that some of the specifics could be omitted from my application as the guitar is ‘pre-convention’ by being before 02-01-17. I also phoned the UK distributor for the guitar (Bill Lewington - it’s a Dean USA) and they told me that they have no requirement to provide any information pertaining to the specifics of the rosewood source due to that reason, and that they wouldn’t have it or be able to trace it anyway.

I’ll let you know how my application progresses of course, but on the phone the agency seemed quite insistent that leaving some boxes blank wouldn’t be a problem as it’s an ‘older’ instrument.

Basically they said it’d only be an issue if it was Brazilian Rosewood as it comes under a different appendix.

They have no idea.

Since january, all kind of rosewood need CITeS from import/export. Even vintage guitars.

If you don't specify they contain any kind of rosewood...well, you could be lucky and if there is no further inspections, the guitar will go through customs, as they will assume there is no rosewood in that shipment. But if they inspect and find out there is rosewood, they will retain the shipment, they can even destroy the guitar because of  attemp of illegal protected species importation.

HateEvent

Well it is that agency I've been going through this with that actually authorise the movements of the instrument from here, so it is based upon their actions as to whether it goes anywhere anyway.

I've still completed an application for the CITES, but have just had to tick the boxes to mark the instrument as 'pre-convention', as per their own rulings.

I'm fully aware of the requirement for all ages of guitars to have CITES for importing/exporting, that isn't what I mentioned about - purely that the PREVIOUS history of the guitar's movements and material sourcing prior to that date has not been captured, as the agency themselves told me I did not need to populate that.

SteelEdge
HateEvent wrote:

Well it is that agency I've been going through this with that actually authorise the movements of the instrument from here, so it is based upon their actions as to whether it goes anywhere anyway.

I've still completed an application for the CITES, but have just had to tick the boxes to mark the instrument as 'pre-convention', as per their own rulings.

I'm fully aware of the requirement for all ages of guitars to have CITES for importing/exporting, that isn't what I mentioned about - purely that the PREVIOUS history of the guitar's movements and material sourcing prior to that date has not been captured, as the agency themselves told me I did not need to populate that.

 

Yep, you did it "illegal", but you did well

HateEvent
SteelEdge wrote:

Well it is that agency I've been going through this with that actually authorise the movements of the instrument from here, so it is based upon their actions as to whether it goes anywhere anyway.

I've still completed an application for the CITES, but have just had to tick the boxes to mark the instrument as 'pre-convention', as per their own rulings.

I'm fully aware of the requirement for all ages of guitars to have CITES for importing/exporting, that isn't what I mentioned about - purely that the PREVIOUS history of the guitar's movements and material sourcing prior to that date has not been captured, as the agency themselves told me I did not need to populate that.

 

Yep, you did it "illegal", but you did well

Well in that case I imagine every pre-2017 guitar that leaves the UK will be done illegally; as it is the UK's own 'Animal and Plant Health Agency' that is the management authority that deals with CITES applications and issues the permits that have specified to complete the application in this manner.

ESP 348

Fuck all this CITES shit, why not leave it alone! :(

Hope all goes well Crazy, please let us know how you go mate.

Big Daddy B

I don't think the are checking too hard in the US. I have brought in 2 guitars without any issues at this end. One was a $4K Les Paul and didn't even have CITES ppw with it but it was coming from Japan. Probably a high volume of goods coming in on those flights from the same country for them to monkey with an electric guitar. Maybe because it was Made in the USA and not subject to Duty it got bypassed but seems like the Japanese really know how to finesse global shipping. 

Sephiroth

HateEvent, you did exactly what I was told to do and that is not illegal. I think Steeledge has got some misinformation there. The guitar is "pre-convention" which is an option on the cites form, and that's exactly what I had to fill out as well as the guitar was from 2013. This information came from Wildlife Licensing (APHA) Animal and Plant Health Agency. which deals with the cites regs and forms in the UK.

i got all my questions answered before I even attempted to process the forms. They were very helpful. 

I've not had to do a cites form for a 2017  guitar that has to abide by the rules that came into effect in January, but I'm going to have to do that very soon. 

Edit ; Just seen Hatevent you've dealt with the same department as me so you got the correct info.

Sephiroth
SteelEdge wrote:

That's why some concrete guitar, specially collectibles ones with rosewood, have dramatically increased its price in EU / UK.You can't legally import them anymore from outside EU/UK.

 

Hope this clears things out: https://reverb.com/news/new-cites-regulations-for-all-rosewood-species

That statement is false. You can legally import / export from UK. Even the link you refer to says you can.

"Even if the instrument was made with Dalbergia or the other regulated woods that were acquired before January 2, 2017 - such as a used or vintage instrument - it still must be accompanied by a CITES certificate and marked pre-convention when shipping internationally."

Pre-convention cites certificate. Exactly what I got for importing a guitar with rosewood that was made before 2017. Guitar hace COA which had the year on it so that proved pre convention, and as the correct rosewood was listed, the application was processed. I sent pictures of the guitar to the agency aswell.

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