EMG 81 Sounds Weak

Updated
EMG 81 Sounds Weak

So I was playing my ESP KH-WZ which now I've had for 2 months which was brand new and I have Ernie Ball .11-.48 on it with a string action of (bass side) 5/64 and (treble) 4/64.  2 weeks ago, I started having problems with pickups.  I took it to a guitar tech and they raised the pickups for me.  It sounded better, but still didn't sound the same as it was the first time I swapped from stock Cleartone .09-.42 to Ernie Ball .11-.48.  It has an Original Floyd Rose, R2 locking nut, and EMG 81 actives in the neck and bridge.  I put the pickup height back to stock multiple times (took measurements of everything before string gauge change) while it was at the stock height and then lowered the action again (don't think guitar tech lowered pickups when I brought it to him and it sounded way better) and it still sounds weak.  I am not concerned with the neck pickup, but more the bridge because now notes at the 22nd and 24th frets font sustain nearly as long as they did before and it sounds very bright and wreak now in general.  I have changed to new strings and have changed out batteries 2-3 times and the problem still occurs.  Could this possibly be a problem with pickup height, wiring (never messed with wiring) or maybe something else?

Pushead

Your profile shows you also have an LTD KH-25.  How does the WZ sound compared to the 25?  When you went to bigger strings, did you also change the tuning (E standard to D or something?)

It looks like you've tried the first things I'd recommend checking. One thing that catches people new to active pickups is accidently leaving their guitar plugged in, which kills the battery.  You've replaced the battery, so it's likely not the problem, though if you're using rechargable batteries, they don't work quite as well and might affect the output.

The different brand and gauge of strings will affect the sound of the guitar.  I've never used a set of Cleartones, but the Ernie Balls are typically bright sounding strings.  The fact you think the guitar sounds weaker than before is a bit surprising.  When I go to larger strings, I expect more output, not less.

It could definitely be a wiring issue.  I don't know what ESP is doing now that EMG has swapped to a "solderless" style.  Is the wiring soldered to the pots, or is there a small board with all of the connectors on it?  If it's the solderless connections, just remove and reattach the wires a few times to make sure they have a good connection.  If it's soldered, and if you don't feel comfortable soldering, have your tech inspect the connections.

Ian M.

I've had the thicker strings on before this problem occurred. The only sorlderless connector is tk the pickup ONLY. The other end of that wire is soldered as well as everything else. I tried reconecting the quick connect to the pickup and I noticed on both, the red wire (9V to battery. You probably already know this) is a little slid off but ONLY a little my local guitar tech guys said that it probably wouldn't be a problem with output, but more a problem of it working sometimes and not working at all. My KH-25 has ESP active pickups in it and I'm pretty sure the ESP activrs have a lower output than the EMG's. The EMG's sound like the ESP pickups and maybe even less than that. They are relatively close to the pickup (where I had them before and I loved it that way) and it almost sounds really over tight and kills the note. When I put it back to stock height, it sounded weak there too. I never put it back to stock height until I had these tonal issues. Even there, it sounded really deep and small. I compare it to my PRS Paul Allender that has an EMG 81TW in the bridge (don't think the TW makes a difference unless in single cool mode) and even when it was farther from the strings with the exact same strings, I sounded brighter even when the Paul Allender wasn't finished with set up.

Pushead

Ah.  I thought the KH25 had EMGs as well.

The KH will sound a bit brighter than the PRS because of the body wood difference, but it shouldn't be drastically different (I have Les Pauls with EMGs and they sound different than the KH-2).  I'd suggest swapping the neck and bridge pickups in it, but I forgot that the KH guitars now use a 60 at the neck instead of a second 81. 

 

At this point, I'd have the wiring gone over.  The only times I've ever had output issues with EMGs is either a) a dying battery or b) a bad pickup selector switch.  With a dying battery, I find the pickups a bit ganier sounding (no headroom and the output is always a bit distorted) but not thinner.  With the pickup selector switch, it was an intermittent problem that could be fixed by wiggling the switch.  In fact, there's a video of this happening to Hetfield on stage at one point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1nWqEACfdg

Ian M.

It's an 81 in neck and bridge. I checked both when I puled them to look at the connection. My problem is the KH-WZ sounds DARKER than the PRS and I didn't know it was the other way around. It sounds DRASTICALLY darker than the PRS. I also find the pickups to have more gain as well. They are supposed to be high gain. It's as if the tone knob is rolled down, but that's not my issue because the tone pot works fine. One thing I have noticed (pretty sure its done it since I got it) is that the volume pot doesn't really work noticeably when you first turn it down but that's just i think it's logarithmic versus linear. My problem isn't that the pickup is working and then not working, my problem is that the tone is way darker all of a sudden. It started when I was setting up the guitar (exact same way I love it and has always worked on this guitar) and I noticed that when playing cleans through the nevk pickup during cyanide by metallica, it didn't come out as clear as before. I guess what I mean is that it was muddy. I also noticed the bridge pickuo had SLIGHTLY less output than before. I did everyting I could (restring, multimeter, etc.) but I never adjusted the pickup because it worked 100% PERFECTLY where it was and I didn't wanna touch it in fear it might screw something up. I was literally getting ready the week after to have it inspected by warranty under ESP and the guy at guitar center (not usually the guy I go to) raised the pickups. I brought it home and it sounded better. I still had a small problem with it and do I put it back to the measurement I took of it when 3-4 days after it got to my house (didn't wanna mess anything up and although I'm only 15 and have learned how to set up guitars for 2 years, it played so well I didn't wanna adjust anything besides what was needed when changing string gauge). It sounded fine after that. My problem is the Bridge Pickup and although I haven't looked into it, possibly the neck could be suffering too, but I've been more concerned about the bridge pickup. Again, it just sounds really dark and it kinda kills the notes. It's really hard to explain but if I'm playing, it will sound dark, but will at the same time play as if it is being choked down. At the high notes (I check sustain with holding 22nd fret and then 24th fret) it used to sustain for like (completely guessing, but I was good sustain) maybe like 3-4 seconds or more which is perfect for me. Now, it sustains for like 1.3-1.7 seconds (still guessing). I know that floyd rose bridges don't sustain well, but with this guitar, I had NO problem with it AT ALL.

Pushead

Any chance you could record a clip and post it on YouTube?  Even a phone camera recording.  Especially if you could do the bridge on the WZ and the bridge on the PRS.

Ian M.

I could try.  Not sure how long it'll take though to upload

Ian M.

I may or may not have just found my problem.  It just happened to my PRS.  I accidentally lulled the cable forward instead of outward and it cut the noise out.  I then did this to my PRS and it messed my jack up.  Could it be possible that the prongs in the jack are messed up?

Ian M.

If this is it, how do I fix the jack because I just put the jack BACK into the PRS and it sundec fine with it OUT and now it sound like muddy and stuff with it IN.  Is there something you have to make sure you do when reinstalling the jack

Pushead

That could absolutely be the problem.  If the cable gets hit too hard while plugged into the guitar, you can bend the prong on the jack.

Forgive the un-necessarily large photo.  The longest prong on this (with the bump out) is what makes the connection to your cable. Bend it toward the hole, to make sure it makes good contact with the connector on the cable. 

Ian M.

I pulled mind a while ago.  Sorry for the late response.  I had the same problem happen to the PRS while trying to make a video for you.  The PRS jack completely died today but once I got if playing once, it did the thing my KH-WZ is doing now Except the ESP one isn't crackling.  There's sligjt play in the jack and if I push it ONLY on a certain side, it stops playing.  I had a cable that fit REALLY tightly into the jack before.  However, my jack had TWO prongs (both my PRS and ESP) which do I bend.  This picture is a near exact representation of the PRS wiring just without push pull pots.  Since I can't put it up on my phone, go to google, type in EMG output jack, and it should be the first image you see.  To make sure it is, it should have two pots, and EMG 81/85 and a two pronged output jack or "stereo" jack

Pushead

The longer one needs to be bent, but you can bend the shorter one as well.

Pushead

Any updates?

Ian M.

Also, what is the shorter prong for.  Do you know by any chance?

Ian M.

Ya.  Sorry about that.  I'm gonna have a repair man I know from my local music store look at it today.  The store is an authorized ESP dealer so if something more serious is wrong (doubt it) then it should still be covered by warranty since he's an authorized dealer.  I'll try to remember to give you an update on it after he takes a look at it.

Pushead

The long prong makes contact with the tip of the 1/4" connector (the hot part of the signal), the shorter one makes contact with the shield, which is the ground.

Ian M.

They cleaned the inside and now it doesn't crackle, but I still don't know if it's right or not.  I still think it sounds a little dark to me.  It is better however

Ian M.

Does the longer prong have to be making FULL contact with the little bump in the cable

Pushead

As long as it's making good contact, you're fine.

 

Ian M.

I don't good contact with the jack.  Sorry for the late reply, my phone had broke when I droprd it on my amp while fixing my guitar.  I recently bought a DiNarzio cable and the curved point of the prong isn't touching the curved part of the got part of the jack.  The guitar sounds better after my local guitar tech set the pickup height.  It still loses some edge I think.  Does this sound correct?

Pushead

See if you can remove the two screws on the jack plate and pull it out far enough to look at the connection.  If it doesn't look like my picture, you might have to replace the jack.

But if your tech says it's right, it might just be that it sounds different in your memory.

Ian M.

Since I can't post photos from my phone, I set it as the profile picture

Ian M.

I also just found something.  Today the wire that goes directly from the negative terminal of the battery to the output jack came off and it STILL PLAYED yet when played at the 24th fret on the 1st string, it made a kinda wishing sound while it still played the note.  I guess in an attempt to explain it, the note played, but in the background, a wishing sound occurred.  Last time I had this happen on my PRS, it just didn't play at all, but this one did.  I guess the tone overall after that happened was I guess really trebly but it had something that sounded like little sustain and it wasn't as heavy, yet still PLAYED fine, but didn't sound right

Ian M.

I already did that.  I've been really busy the last 2 days so I haven't had time to but I might have my shop replace the jack if it actually is that bad.  It is not in full contact with the hot part of the jack, but I think the DiMarzio jack I think has a less I guess you could say PRONOUNCED chamber on the jack.  Your jack is like round and smooth at the hot part and mine it smooth, but the bottom duvet is more edged and doesn't curve, this I think it is causing the prong to not come in full contact with the hot part of the cable

Pushead

Hmm.  It should be fine like that, but you could try bending just the top part of the curve to try to get the notched part to fit better into the indent of the jack.

Ian M.

The problem I have now is that the terminal that grounds the jack to the wire (wire that goes straight from battery terminal to the jack instead of through the entire circuit) broke off yet it still played but up high it had a wooshing sound that was very noticeable when played on the 24th fret on the first string and was A LITTLE down on power.  I think what this means is that the power is actually ARCING somewhere which would explain that no matter what I do, it doesn't reproduce that tone it had before.  The last time this happened with my PRS, it didn't power it at all.  It just sounded the way it would when the battery was taken out.  With my KH-WZ though, it still played but just with a little less output but it still sounded distorted.  Could this POSSIBLY be my problem?

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