Could someone from ESP can clarify the ESP EII vs ESP STANDARD dylemma once and for all?

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Could someone from ESP can clarify the ESP EII vs ESP STANDARD dylemma once and for all?

I bought a EII horizon fr. You can see her on my profile picture. When I ordered the guitar my dealer told me that EII was the rebranded ESP STANDARD, so acutally I was going to buy a STANDARD with a different brand: EII.

Whae the guitar arrived I noticed several imperfections. One inlay was cracked and the other was not inserted in the neck precisely; I found a hole filled with wood plaster on the 15th fret. The guitar is awesome, very good soud and feeling but for 1800€ I was expecting better finishes.

So I started searching on the web and I red several people saying that tha new EII series is actually the old LTD ELITE, and judging from the finishes on my guitar I could belive it.

So please, "Could someone from ESP can clarify the ESP EII vs ESP STANDARD dylemma once and for all?"

Crtcl_Bhvr

at the time the ltd elite series came up i wanted to buy one of them but at this time it was too expensive for an ltd imo. after all the ltd elite series switched to the e-2 series so it's definitely not a freaking mixture of the esp standard series and the ltd elite. esp standard was simply the best...

Darryl M.

This all means that I will have to pick up a Standard Series Horizon to go with my Eclipse, ASAP. They're going to become harder to get and more sought after.

Duraes87

In my opinion ESP should only have 3 lines... The ESP USA, ESP Standard MIJ and Ltd. Rebranding the ESP Standard line did not made any sense!! I've red many complaints about E-II models which in the other hand its very rare to find about ESP Standards. 

Daniel L.

I can't imagine that the new "E-II"-Brand is the former ESP Standard-Series. That seems to be bullshit to me. I've been comparing prices between ESP Standard and ESP E-II Guitars and those E-IIs seem to be cheaper than the old Standard-Series ESPs. So there must be a difference somewhere. You don't sell your guitars cheaper for no reason. So i won't trust in ESP, telling me that E-II is the same quality like former ESP-Standard.

Now they're also able to sell cheaper LTD-Elite-Guitars for a higher price as E-II Guitars and if you want an ESP Standard Series Guitar, you've got to go to the custom-shop, which costs you 200% of the price of a former Standard-Series.

What else would be the reason why E-II Guitars are cheaper than the original Standard-Series? Don't sell us stupid, ESP!

Hans B.

Yeah it's all a bunch of bs. And all this happening at a time when the guitar market is at an all time low. It is crazy charging more for instruments now than in the heyday of rock/metal in the mainstream. There is no resale there for a custom shop ESP especially if it is not a signature or a desirable out of production Hetfield/Kirk model. This reminds me of Toyota with their ridiculously priced Lexus LFA model. Who in their right mind would pay $400k when you can buy an Aventador for that price or a Huracán and other Ferraris for much less. I don't care how good Japanese craftsmanship can be, they just don't have the heritage to pull off these prices especially when they had a long running standard ESP export line that topped out around $2k for nearly two decades.

davoss
Hans B. wrote:

Yeah it's all a bunch of bs. And all this happening at a time when the guitar market is at an all time low. It is crazy charging more for instruments now than in the heyday of rock/metal in the mainstream. There is no resale there for a custom shop ESP especially if it is not a signature or a desirable out of production Hetfield/Kirk model. This reminds me of Toyota with their ridiculously priced Lexus LFA model. Who in their right mind would pay $400k when you can buy an Aventador for that price or a Huracán and other Ferraris for much less. I don't care how good Japanese craftsmanship can be, they just don't have the heritage to pull off these prices especially when they had a long running standard ESP export line that topped out around $2k for nearly two decades.

 

Well said! Its a silly marketing move indeed! I dont think ESP realise how much this move has alienated and confused it loyal fans...

Rikki Tikki Tavi

I have an E-II Eclipse and mine is perfect and I am picky to say the least. Finish, playability and looks not far off the quality of my PRS CU24.

They're a great guitar and worth the asking price. Just my two penneth

 

davoss

This whole E-ii changeover thing is just weird... Why not just continue calling them ESP standards?

Hypnotoad6969

Because they aren't ESP Standards. They are re-branded LTD's for the price of what a standard used to be. 

Louis Torres Photography

My guitar teacher (Javier Carpio, of Merauder) LIVED for ESP guitars so I fell in love with them back in the early 90s. One day, he let me use his ESP M-I Deluxe and that was it, was instantly hooked. As a high school kid, it was hard to justify spending what was an arm and a leg at the time, but years later, I now have a gorgeous ESP M-II Standard (traded for a Les Paul Studio Premium) and ESP Horizon Custom (paid $750 from a guy who needed money asap). Seriously, if you're patient, you can find both Standards, USA and Custom models on eBay for under $1,000. At the moment, I'm working with two sellers... One for another ESP Horizon Custom for $800 in mint condition and a USA model that's beige with Harley Davidson on the body. I'm not a biker but that one would be an investment for $1,000. Why would ANYONE ever want an LTD? It's not an ESP nor will anyone who loves ESP ever think it's an ESP. It's like saying your Mini Cooper is a BMW! Who cares who makes it, it's not an ESP and E-II is nothing less than a Mini Cooper with a BMW badge, but you and I both know it's an LTD or Mini Cooper in this example. Just buy a used ESP Standard or Custom. You'll love it and you'll never complain. And for anyone who's bought an LTD or E-II, you've wasted your money! Go sell your Mini Cooper and get the BMW you've been chasing after. Thank me later! Clearly the new ESP doesn't care as much about their clientele as they once did. It shows in their quality these days. That being said, stick to the used market! You'll find the ESP of your dreams! After 27 years of playing heavy, my all time favorite guitar is my ESP Horizon Custom. Best $750 I've ever spent!!! And I own fourteen guitars!!!!  : )

Maddnotez

Merauder was awesome. They used to come to my hometown Albany all the time in the late 90's. I just got my first ESP. It is a 2011 Horizon Standard Series in Reindeer Blue. Paid $750 and it is great.

Louis Torres Photography

@maddnotez. Funny because I moved from Brooklyn and now live in Clifton Park. Since posting that a few weeks ago, I managed to buy two more ESPs and now have four. Hahahaha..!! I'm obsessed but I'm done with ESPs for now. Just had a custom Carvin DC135 in Koa wood shipped today that's gorgeous. Your ESP Horizon is gorgeous! I love that color and hell yeah for only paying $750..!! If you're patient, you'll find an amazing ESP Standard, Custom, USA model at great prices! Since that post, I picked up another ESP Horizon (hunter green) for $800 and an ESP Custom Superstrat USA model for $400 but it was in terribly AWFUL shape. The ESP Custom Superstrat was stripped to bare wood, entirely repaired, all new hardware added, Seymour Duncan Invaders installed and painted matte black! Looks and sounds incredible..!! Bought for $400 and spent $450 in parts + wiring done by Parkway Music. Worth it for a USA model..!!

Synner

I refuse to buy an E-ii... I went and found a old Mirgage custom instead... I own ESP models and several LTD's..

Hypnotoad6969

Simply put, the "E" series are just LTD's.  In more depth...  - 

The "E" series is just a re-branding of the LTD deluxe (or elite, I forget what they called their top of the line crap model). LTD's were getting a bad wrap on forums and youtube because of imperfections off the line, and the price point was too high, so, the suits did a re-brand. PRS and Gibson did the same thing with their lower models, and they too now suck to high heaven. I own a number of ESP Standards ranging from 1995 to 2007 and the "E" models (AKA LTD's) are complete crap in comparison. Well, that's a bit harsh, but they are overpriced, re-branded LTD's that will almost certainly have imperfections off the line, but still pass inspection whereas Standard ESP's would be fixed, scrapped and parted out, or labeled B-Stock with ANY imperfection. I got a killer deal on one of my M2s because a little bit of glue leaked out when they glued on the fretboard. Few hours of playing and the glue flaked right off. This tiny bit of glue which equated to an incredibly minor cosmetic flaw got it labeled B-Stock and several hundred bucks off the price.  Just an example of the standards, no pun intended, that the ESP Standard line had for their products, the E series just turns and burns em, you might get a decent one, you might get a complete lemon.

Standard ESP's came out of the exact same Japanese factory and were made by the exact same luthiers that would make the custom shop ESP's.  Now that the "E" series are just LTD's re-branded, some parts come from China and are assembled in Korea or some BS before they reach Japan. ESP standards were built to last. Find a second hand one, it'll be light years better than a new LT"E".  Or, go with a Jackson standard series, they are still making their standard series in the same shops by the same luthiers as their custom shop guitars. A soloist or a RR1 from Jackson USA will blow the E series out of the water every, single, time. 

They aren't horrible guitars, but they should cost 7-800 bucks at the most. Kinda shady marketing honestly, people think it's just a new name and new logo for the Standard Series, when it's actually just an LTD Deluxe. 

Hypnotoad6969

If this business model will make them more money, then that's that. Seems a bit shady though, the way the rebrand went down. LOTS of people I talk to online and in person think that the only difference between the discontinued standard models and the E models is the logo on the headstock. They think a 2017 E-II is the same guitar as a 2007 M-II. More people complain about the missing ESP logo, not knowing it's missing because it's a frickin LTD Deluxe for 2 grand, NOT an ESP standard.  ESP standards are already getting harder and harder (giggity) to find second hand online. I bought several standards from the mid 90s to the mid 00s and I doubt I'd ever part with them even before the lovely rebrand, but now I'm holding onto these like grim death. 

Hypnotoad6969

The E2s are junk.  Just hit up Ebay or Reverb and look for a used mid 90s to mid 2000s standard series.  They are tanks, and hold their value. I'm already seeing E2s on ebay and reverb, lightly used, that cost 1800 new, and dudes trying to sell them are struggling to get a grand out of them.  Whereas my used standard series guitars could sell damn near their original value (if not more, I did work on them).  E2s would only be good guitars is they were priced like the LTD Deluxes that they are, aka around 1100-1200.  1800 for an LTD Deluxe gimme a fucking break ESP. 

Jimmy R.

Dude, EIIs are not LTD deluxes, come on man are you speaking from experience here?  The now discontinued ESP Standard, LTD Elite (not deluxe) and EII are all the same guitar line.  They're all high quality Japanese production models.  I have had an LTD Elite Eclipse and 2 ESP standard eclipses, they're the same guitar.  I think the issue was that people didn't want "LTD" on the headstock of their guitars because of some sort of perceived lack of prestige, that's why ESP changed the name of LTD Elite to EII IMO. 

Beaten Beyond

It is my understanding that the ESP Standard Series line was dropped because it was intended only for the Export market, but the guitars were making their way back to Japan and diluting the ESP brand in Japan and confusing Japanese consumers.  Yes, they were great guitars, but still not Original Series or Custom Shop level, which the Japanese market adores.  It's a Japanese company who treats their Japanese market as #1, so Standard Series was dropped.  So put your blame on the Export loser dealers who were messing with the distribution model.  At least that's my understanding of it.  Anyone feel free to correct.  

So I understand their reasoning for a branding change, but the problem is the choice of "E-II". That's honestly the worst brand name I'm aware of in the entire guitar industry.  Terrible, terrible, terrible.  I initially thought it was a joke, but it wasn't and unfortunately it's still here years later.  I've owned and love the old Standard Series stuff, but won't buy E-II stuff because of the branding.  No matter their quality/price, I won't buy one.  I still keep my eye out for pre-E-II branded Japan stuff.  And I'd probably buy an upper level LTD before an E-II.  LTD is a classy brand name.  Headstock logo DOES matter to some degree to me at least with something as terrible as "E-II".  

Art Caveretta

I own a ESP E II Horizon III and I love it.Flawless finish,Gotoh bridge and locking tuners,Plays like a ESP Standard.A lot of people complain because it doe not have the ESP logo on the headstock.What does that have to do with anything other then looks?? This guitar is worth the price and the Duncan pickups scream.Everything about this guitar I saw quality.......

Josh in NY

Wow, this is NOT what I want or need to see when I have a guitar on order... there are more negatives about the whole E-II issue than trying to justify it on ESP's behalf... And with what others have said in this thread alone - on ESP's own boards - just confirms my suspicions, and I am honestly now severely skeptical of following this thru.

 

Part of the reason why I went with this guitar on order -an E-II M-II-7-NT - is because I am not 100% on the new LTD Kamikaze 4, and this is finally a higher end version of the LTD's I have been grinding on for the last 2 decades. So what I thought was going to be a good thing, now has me severely second guessing it. And as much as I would LOVE an actual Custom Shop piece or a USA M-7, I am not made of money and obviously have better things to spend $3k+ on than a single guitar right now...

 

So can anyone confirm as of more recently if ANY of the newest E-II stuff is  worth it? I know it's not the same thing as an actual SS, but has the quality issues been addressed and corrected??? I may just cancel my order and keep my eyes peeled for a used or like-new USA M-7 for the same price I am gonna pay for this E-II...

 

Thanks in advance!

Cogan C.

I think the E-II line is pretty decent for what they charge ($1,700 or so). I just picked up a new E-II Horizon and it was flawless right out of the case- action was low with no fret buzz, the ebony fingerboard was conditioned and shiney, no scratches, etc. The only thing I did was change the strings (I prefer D'Addario) and changed the tuning. It's built really well and for the craftsmanship, it's better than the LTD 1000 series for sure. That being said, it's really up to you. If you're skeptical about the E-II line then I'd wait for a used USA-made M-7, otherwise you'll be second guessing yourself if you go with the E-II.

Martyn R

Did you pay 1700 for the Eii or “pick it up” for less?

In uk & eu eii list around 2k but some dealers have them on sale at around 1700. Does any one know if they sell many? I’ve seen new ones for sale with 2015,16& 17 serial numbers so they either use stock photos or don’t shift on that quickly.

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