ESP Horizon FR-II vs Jackson SL2H

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Nagash
I usually tend to like weird guitar shapes like offset Vs or Explorer-alikes, but this time I'm simply seeking a high-end superstrat guitar. After looking around, I ended up caught between the following two : the ESP Horizon FR-II and the Jackson SL2H. Common features : Neck-through, dual humbuckers, 24 frets, floyd rose. Exactly what I want (plus the trans red finish ^^) Main differences : ESP has Mahogany body and EMGs. Retail price : around 2100 $ Jackson has Alder body and Seymour Duncan pickups. Retail price : 2750 $ So if anyone has tried out BOTH guitars, give me an advice please ! One of my close friends owns the ESP so I know it quite well, but I have no access to the Jackson so I can't tell if it is even better. And please DON'T suggest other manufacturers (especially not Ibanez) cause I'm only interested in these two guitars.
Kannon

The Horizons I've played have felt better than about 75% of the Jackson USA Soloists I've played. The older Jacksons, however, are just as tight (pre-fender buyout).

Also the ESP has a solid maple cap. I personally like that. :D But I do like the painted (non-transparent) backs on the SL2s. Especially the Snakeskin.

It may come down to which is a better deal, as you can find them both for not too much used.

Nagash

Nah I never buy used guitars, always new ones. Straight out of the factory, cause I don't like the idea that my guitar has already been used by somebody else.

So if I got you right you're a pro-ESP.

ESP 1 - 0 Jackson

Beaten Beyond

A big difference is that the FR-II is an archtop whereas an SL2H has a shape and contours more similar to an M-II. I like the looks of an archtop better, but the edges are squared, which isn't as comfortable as rounded edges of an SL2H or M-II. The SL2H upper contour is like an M-II also.

The necks are quite a bit different on the two. I personally like the feel of newer Jackson USA necks better, but I can get along fine on ESP Horizons as well.

You have more color options with Jackson.

Jackson USA neck-through construction is funky in that the neck-through portion is often a combination of the neck wood and the wing wood. i.e. the part of the neck-through that is in the body can be a combination of maple and alder on a guitar that has alder wings. Whereas with ESP the neck-through is solid maple all the way into the body.

Pre or post Fender largely means nothing.

Nagash

For the color, I'm interested in trans red finishes, as I already mentioned.

For the neck, is the SL2H thinner than the Horizon ? Cause my hands are a bit small and my fingers a bit short, the thinner the neck is, the better I play it.

I'll check out the M-II to get an idea, if they are really similar that'll help a lot on my decision, the music shop 10 minutes away from my flat owns an M-II ^^.

ESP 1 - 1 Jackson. The duel continues.

Beaten Beyond

An FR-II should have a 1 5/8" nut width whereas Jacksons are mostly 1 11/16".

1/16" may not sound like much difference, but it is actually quite noticeable.

ESP neck shapes vary. For example, I have a recent production FR and also a recent production FR-II. Even though they are supposed to have the same specs, the FR's neck is fatter.

An SL2H is more similar to a neck-through M-II than it is to an FR-II. Checking out an M-II would give you a good idea of what the overall shapes and contours of an SL2H are like.

With all that said, if you have smaller hands, you might prefer the narrower nut width of an FR-II. I love my FR-II. If you like trans red, I'd lean towards the FR-II....mine has a real nice quilt top. I don't recall ever seeing a trans red SL2H, but I'm sure they are out there.

Edit: I found some pics of trans red SL2Hs and if you want trans red, an FR-II looks MUCH better IMO. The pics I found show the Jacksons with chrome hardware whereas the FR-II has black nickel hardware. I'm generally not much of a fan of black nickel, but it actually looks really good on red.

Nagash

thanks a lot dude ! I checked the M-II and I have to say I the horizon feels better than the M-II. I'll wait for other people to post around here, let's see what other things I'd better check out before putting 2000 bucks on the table ^^.

Nagash

Mushroony what do you mean "a lot wider", can you give me any dimensions ?

Mushroony

The strings are further apart from eachother. At the nut, the Jackson fretboard is 43 mm wide, while the Horizon's fretboard is 42 mm. It doesn't seem alot, but it's a whole other feel. You certainly notice it when you play the guitar.

Nagash

I have already played 43mm nuts, doesn't seem problematic to me. Except if at the bridge the Jacksons are also a lot wider, which I doubt because they use the same floyd rose than ESP. Anyway thanks for the details ^^

METALCARNAGE04

If you prefer the ESP than you have no problem

I was comparing ESP and Jackson before I got my mii and I prefered the ESP neck

antikue

I have both an SL2H and an M-II neck through (both completed in the first week of March 2008!), and I'd recommend the SL2H. The satin coated M-II neck is lovely but the compound radius on the Jackson tips the scale in Jacksons' favour. Also the build quality is somewhat better.

Nagash

Okay... I don't want to continue this thread for ages ^^ and besides, as I got VERY lucky I was able to play on a SL1 which is the same as the SL2H apart from the pickups, and indeed the Soloists suit me better than the Horizons.

Thanks a lot for all your contributions !

Mr.Dahl

Don't buy Jackson! Jackson's Crap built in the USA. Poor quality if you compare them to ESP. They feel like shit too and are muuuuuuuuuuuch more expensive than an ESP. So go for the Horizon FR II STR w/EMG's ;).

Beaten Beyond

Don't buy Jackson! Jackson's Crap built in the USA. Poor quality if you compare them to ESP.

That's a bit exaggerated, wouldn't you say? Like most guitar companies, Jackson has some duds slip out now and then, but as a whole they are quality guitars. How many Jackson USAs have you owned?

They feel like shit too....What exactly does that mean? What spec(s) don't you like about Jacksons? Horizons and Soloists are certainly different, but to say Jacksons "feel like s**t"". :confused:

...and are muuuuuuuuuuuch more expensive than an ESP. So go for the Horizon FR II STR w/EMG's ;).FR-II list price: $2,399 without case. $2,539 with case
SL2H transaparent finish list price: $2,749 with case

They both street within a couple hundred $ of each other. On the used market, they are priced very similar. :confused:

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MV-CTM

USA Selects are CNC guitars...only CS Jacksons are handmade...don't want anyone to be misled. On both the cutout of the lower horn will affect the upper access more than the sculpting of the neck joint fwiw.

Piney Hills Music

USA Selects are CNC guitars...only CS Jacksons are handmade...don't want anyone to be misled. On both the cutout of the lower horn will affect the upper access more than the sculpting of the neck joint fwiw.

actually, they arent...

the USA Selects are made with a Table Router and a template
the USA Customs are made with a Pin Router and a different template

the CNC machines are used only to cut the neck pockets on dinky's
they have started experimenting with CNC's just in the last 6 months, but Mike Shannon doesnt like the results yet enough to use them for full blown production.

thats straight from Mike's mouth at NAMM in January...
that said... PRS CNC's almost everything

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Nagash

Handmade or not just changes the "prestige" you get from owning the guitar, I don't think they really play differently.

And P.D. I have already played a few Jacksons and they are definitely no shit, at least not in my hands. I'd like to hear your arguments though, there has to be a reason why you don't like Jacksons.

I think I'll end up buying eff-ing both guitars ^^.

MV-CTM

^they probably just don't feel good in his hands like I absolutely can't stand SGs

Kannon

I've gotta agree with that. While CNC can churn out some very damn precise dialed in consistency, on a 'per-instrument' basis, nothing beats a luthier's feel and intuition and experience.

But, to PRS's credit, they do a metric assload of hand-sanding and hand assembly/attention after the rough mill and CNC routing.

brandono61cr

you know the "handmade" thing is not tha important to me , anyhoo i LOVE my esp ltd mh250 and it beats jacksons 3 times its price to hell and back and it will still be in tune ! neck straghter than a arrow and it's just and ltd :evil! so imagn how jawsome a real ESfckinP will play !
now USA jacksons are REALLY nice guitars but i love jappanese (sepelling ist phuuun:p !) guitars and "made in the USA" just dosnt mean what it used to|I|I|I

as for pup's i dont really like EMG (but i dont hate them) and passive duncans are really cool ! but i would pop in a set of duncan blackouts for absolutly devistating demonic metal doom:evil ( just my opinon)

in the end i would go for the ESP sell the EMGs and install blackouts

Mushroony

you know the "handmade" thing is not tha important to me , anyhoo i LOVE my esp ltd mh250 and it beats jacksons 3 times its price to hell and back and it will still be in tune ! neck straghter than a arrow and it's just and ltd :evil! so imagn how jawsome a real ESfckinP will play !
now USA jacksons are REALLY nice guitars but i love jappanese (sepelling ist phuuun:p !) guitars and "made in the USA" just dosnt mean what it used to|I|I|I

as for pup's i dont really like EMG (but i dont hate them) and passive duncans are really cool ! but i would pop in a set of duncan blackouts for absolutly devistating demonic metal doom:evil ( just my opinon)

in the end i would go for the ESP sell the EMGs and install blackouts
Aw man, not the ye olde 'my budget guitar beats guitars that are twice or tripple as expensive' bullcrap. Only people that don't know shit about guitars try to say stupid things like this.
FACT: if this were true, no one would even buy the other guitars, and everybody would have the same bloody guitar.

Saying this, you loose all credibility. It's like saying your Golf GTI beats a ferrari in a sprint. The VW may be fast, but everybody knows you're lying.

Made in USA isn't what it used to? Wrong again. Maybe Gibson is screwing up for the last 20 years, but that doesn't mean that any USA made guitar is worse than it was back then. In fact, USA jacksons after 2000 are alot better than the ones they made in the nineties (when the MIJ ones were incredibly good, even better than the USA ones).

If you don't know much about these guitars, please spare your advice.

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