The ESP Guitar Company

Yes, the woods used and what not will be better but in all honesty, with high end guitars its better to just go and try them out. Specs alone never really “justify” why you pay extra for them. If you get a nice guitar up close in person and play it, you will understand

esp and ltd is like nite and day

its really THAT obvious , soon as you hold it you will know

Thanks guys.
So upon reading your responses, I went to Sam Ash...and there it was, my dream guitar. Eclipse II in vintage black. The thing had quite a few dings, some minor fretwear on the 1st 2 frets, and the neck pickup was backwards...It is a 2006, so i'm thinking it's used. Felt great, needs a little tweeking, perfect weight...just a pleasure...with a $1499 tag on it. it was NEW!!!! so i asked the sales rep whats up...he had no answers. showed him the fretwear...and he offered $150 off, but with sales tax, i'm back to $1470...so I passed. But now i got bit by the esp bug. :)

I think i'm going to get a new amp first then save up long enough to get myself an actual esp. hell, my fender will be more than good enough to keep playing until I gather that kinda scratch.

dude i wouldnt pay more than 900 for a used eclipse , they go next to new on egay for a little over 1000. So smart choice there. Can you buy online since you played one and you know you like it?

We have a 2008 eclipse at work and i went back and forth between the LTD truckster and the Eclipse. To me its all down to the quality of the wood, all the LTDs sounds quite flat when played next to a real ESP, there alive they have tone..............LTDS are great for the money but they sound like most EMG loaded £500 - £800 guitars no nice but not great

i've been doing through this lately as well.

I recently picked up an ESP Viper, Urban Camo, and a friend brought his LTD viper over, and it was night and day difference. mine just had so much more body, tone, and warmth to it, it was the clear tonal winner.

I recently picked up an old ltd h300, and it hasn't totally won me other either, as well a Screaming Skull ltd, and i just couldn't deal with that one, sounded thin and weak, and was super light, as well as this week got an ltd George Lynch Baritone, and i dunno about it either...might not be a keeper.

real ESP vs LTD? There really is NO similarity. LTD-might as well be playing a Schecter! It is the same factory after all isnt it?

Funny I decided to lurk a little around here. Around 2005 someone posted a comparison between the ESP and Ltd Eclipse models. I quite liked it and shared it in another forum. So here it comes back where it belongs/was born. Kudos to Richmond J. Prescott. Whoever he is. :)

This is not my opinion as I only own an Horizon, but I believe RJP did a nice job.

NB: I have to post it in two parts for length forum technical related reason. Have a nice reading though.

This might help some out...

Objective: The objective in this study is to compare and contrast two guitars: The Eclipse 1 CTM from ESP guitars (which will be reffered to in the study ony as "CTM") and its sister guitar; the Ec-1000 (Reffered to as "Ec1k" throughout the study) from ESP subsidiary, LTD guitars. The goal of the study was not to determine "which guitar is better" but rather, their differences and similarities in sound and overall quality in relation to each guitars respective price.

OVERVIEW: After three days of extensive comparison, i have compiled my notes and gathered my thoughts. The study was broken up into various sub-sections and there will be conclusions and reflections at the end of each sub-section (please note: the reflections at the end of each sub-section are the opinions of the researcher and may not agree with that of the reader). These are the findings from the study:

Variables

There are numerous varibales involved in any comparison, these were the most pertinant and were adressed accordingly:

String Type - As any experienced guitarist knows, the strings with which a guitar is equipped hold great bearing on a guitars tone color. Even the age of the string being used can hold great bearing on the tone. To remedy this potential inconsistency, both guitars were equipped with the same brand, type, and gauge of strings for the duration of this study (Fender stainless steel. Gauge 9). Futhermore, both guitars were re-strung within one hour of each other to remedy the variable of string age.

Pickup Configuration - Both guitars came equipped with EMG pickups. The model of the pickup in the neck position however, was different. The Ec1k came with an EMG 81 pickup in the neck position while the CTM was equipped with a 60. These pickups are known for being earnestly different in sound. To remedy this variable, the Ec1k was refitted with a model 60 pickup in the neck position. Many authorized ESP dealer who also sell EMG pickups will perform this "Pup Swap" for a very minimal expense. Some companies even do it for free. If the dealer refuses to do such a modification, the buyer of the guitar can very easily purchase a Model 60 pickup and install it himself even if he has no experience with wiring or soldering. This is thanks to an innovative feature on new EMG pikcups know as Quik Connect. In this case, $80 must be added to the cost of the Ec1k in order to cover the added expense of the Model 60 purchase.

Amplifier, Preamps, ect. used - Both guitars were played through the same amplifier effect pedals. Additionally, both guitars were played using the same instrument cables as well as the same guitar pick.

Personal Bias - This is, perhaps, the most important of all the variables involved in the study. A person will almost always have a great deal of preferential bias toward the guitar that he owns at the time. It is my opinion that the only way to truly be unbiased in this aspect is for the person doing the comparison to actaully OWN both guitars. I have remedied this varibale by having purchased both guitars. Both guitars featured in this study belong to me and there are no preconceived biases toward either. They will be approached by me as equals and any conclusions drawn during or at the conclusion of the study will be based on the findings of the study alone.

Price and Availability

LTD Ec-1000 in BLACK
Price: Approx $850usd with OHSC
Availability: The guitar in question is widely available through any number of ESP dealers worldwide.

ESP Eclipse I CTM
Price: Approx $1,500usd with OHSC
Availability: Currently discontinued. Origionally only available outside of the U.S. as an import model. Recently, it has been replaced with the Eclipse VTB, which is functionally identical, but has noticable consmetic differences. Only the 1st generation CTM will be made refernce to in this report.

CONCLUSIONS: the Ec1k certainly has an advantage over the CTM in both price and avilability. Quite simply put, it is alot easier to find and buy an Ec1k than it is for a CTM.

ADVANTAGE: Ec1k

Differneces in Basic Functional and Cosmetic Features

Controls - The Eclipse CTM features a 2 vol./, 2 tone control with a 3 way toggle switch. The Ec1k also featuresa 3 way toggle but has only one tone control.
Adavntage: CTM

Comtrol configuration - Both guitars have the Toggle switch in the same location (on the upper horn of the guitar). The CTM however, has its four knobs in a traditional "Les Paul" configuartion while the Ec1k has its three knobs running in-line parrallel to the lower curve of the guitars body, putting the guitars contorls much closer to where the Guitarists hand would be, unlike as on a "Strat" however, the knobs are far enough so that they are not disturbed during agressive picking. The Ec1k also cleverly has the 2 volume controls switched, putting the control for the bridge pikcup where one would traditionally expect the control for the neck pickup. this improves the acessibility of the neck pickup volume control. the neck pickups is the most commonly used of the two pickups so this little "switch up" proves to be a decidedly useful feature.

**it should be noted that as of 2005, Eclipse standards in the U.S. have the same control configuration as the LTD versions.

Advantage: Ec1k

Neck - The CTM features a 22 fret neck while the Ec1k features a 24 fret neck, giving the Ec1k a full 2 octave range for each string. The neck shapes of the guitars are extremely similar, though the Ec1k seems slightly thinner. This may be due to the extended number of frets. The difference in neck shape however, is EXTREMLY minimal.
Advantage: Ec1k

Tuners: Both guitars feature Sprezel Locking tuners.
Adavntage: NA

Hardware: The eclipse CTM features high quality GOTOH JAPAN harware. The Ec1k features TonePros Locking hardware. Although both are very high quality, the Tonepros harware has the locking mechnaisms and is generally considered "Top of the Line"
Advantage: Ec1k

Guitar Body Design - At a glance, the body designs of both guitars seem very similar. The majority of the differences lie in the cutaway area. The Ec1k has a smaller, sharper cutaway, making the cutaway go slightly deeper and giving the guitar a much sleeker look. Futhermore, the Ec1k features a "hand scoop" carved out of the back of the cutaway, improving the upper-fret comfort. The CTM has no such carving. the smaller cutaway and hand scoop, coupled with the 24 fret neck give the Ec1k superior fret acess.

*it should be noted that as of 2005, Eclipse standards in the U.S. have the same cutaway shape as the LTD versions.

Advantage: Ec1k

Binding and Inlays- Both guitars feature white binding on the neck and body. The Ec1k however has abalone inlay and purfling while the CTM has a 3ply white binding and pearloid inlay. From an stricly "cost" point of view, the abalone is considered to be a more "high-end" feature. This feature is also, however, considered by most to make the guitar look "Gaudy" and "Overdone". This makes the advantage a matter of personal prefernce more than anything else. It is the opinion of the researcher however, that the more simple, clean look of the white binding and pearloid inlay makes the CTM look more apropriate for the style of music it was initially designed for.
Advantage: CTM

Nut - The CTM features a high quaility Bone nut. The Ec1k however features the EARVANA compensated nut. This nut enables more precise tunning and thus imporves the pitch accuracy of the guitar.
Advantage: Ec1k

Harware Finish - Both guitars feature gold harware, the CTM however, has brused gold harware while the Ec1k features "shiny" harware. Preference on this issue is mostly a personal matter, but it should be noted that the brusged gold finish of the CTM seems much more durable and resistant to oxidization. Futhermore, it more closely matches the brushed gold harware on the sperzel tuners.
Advantage: CTM

TONE

Unplugged - In this area, the CTM really shined, it was very resonant and very loud when being played unplugged. Even natural harmonics were very loud. The Ec1k also had an exellent unplugged sound, but it was not as loud or resonant as the CTM
Advantage: CTM

Bridge Pickup (Amped) - Both guitars feature a Model 81 EMG pickup in the bridge position and, as would be imagined the tones were very similar, though not identical. The Ec1k seemd to come off as being a tad brighter (only a tad). The CTMs neck pickup seemed to have a bit of clarity and resonance that the Ec1k lacked. It should be noted that these two differences were VERY minor. A blindfolded man listening to both would not likely be able to tell the difference unless he was listening to it for a very long time.
Advantage: CTM (barely)

Neck Pickup (Amped) - NOTE: The Ec1k comes with a Model 81 pickup stock. For the purposes of the comparison, the neck pickups was changed to a Model 60. Unlike as with the Bridge pickups comparison, the CTM held a clear adavantage over the Ec1k in this department. Due to the fact that the CTM is a 22 fret guitar, it puts the neck pickup where the octave point is located. This tonal "sweet spot" is missed by the Ec1k, which instead uses the area for an additional 2 frets. Though neither had a bad showing, the CTMs clean tones surpassed that of the Ec1k. Harmonics were effortless and the tone seemed to mimic that of a 60's strat.

*it should be noted that as of 2005, the Ec-1000 features an EMG model 60 in the neck position.

Advantage: CTM

Both Pickups Engaged (Amped) - The CTM seemed to have a more "bluesy" tone to it when both pikcups were engage. This is likely due to the combination of the "harmonic sweet spot" from the neck pickup and the clarity and bite of the bridge pickup. The Ec1k had a good showing, but once again, seemed to lack just a little bit of clarity and resonance that the CTM had.
Advantage: CTM

PLAYABILITY

Balance - Both guitars had thier balance tested using the most slippery nylon strap i could find. Both displayed PERFECT balance. Wherever you would hold your guitar, thats exactly where these two guitars stayed. ESP is known for making very well balanced guitars and these two are no exeption. Both displayed perfect balance.
Advantage: Equals

Fret Edges: Neither guitar had sharp fret edges, but the CTM had a truly phenomenal fret dressing job. each fret was shaped perfectly, filed very evenly and there was not a rough edge to be found
Advantage: CTM

Fretboard: This is one of the more fundamental differences between the two guitars. the Ec1k features a Rosewood fretbaord while the CTM has an Ebony fretboard. The CTM's fretbaord is resoundingly smoother, as ebony boards usually are. Slides, note bending and tapping seemed virtually effortless on the CTM. It should be noted however, that although it was not as smooth as the CTMs board, the Ec1k's fretboard was also quite good. Among rosewood fretboards, the Ec1k has one of the higher quality fretboards I've encountered. LTD uses very high density rosewood for their high-end models (300, 400 and 1000 series) the result is a fretbaord with a much smoother feel and a much darker, richer look than the average rosewood board.
Advantage: CTM

Conclusions:

If nothing else, my research has yeilded to me, it is this: Both guitars are truly top-notch performance guitars. As far as Egronomics and features go, the Ec1k comes out on top. The CTM however, virtually dominated the tone and playability department. The CTM can safely be considered to a far superior guitar, but the Ec1k is definetly a better value. As far as applicability for purposes, the CTM is more of a guitar to be used in the studio, for absolute apex of tone. The Ec1k howver, with its greater ease of restringing (from the tonepors hardware) and lower price makes it the more Gig friendly guitar, and thus more appropriate for the types of musicians that frequent these boards.

Considering the findings, as well as the price and availability, my final conclusions can be summed up in a single sentance.

"Both guitars absolutley kick @$$."

-Richmond J. Prescott

I hope it was useful and you enjoyed.

I have had LTD's that i thought sounded and played just as good as ESP's. i have owned both an Eclipse and M-II and have played plenty others at the store. To this day, I feel like the best tone i have gotten is out of my viper 400 w/duncans. Don't get me wrong, I would always pick an ESP over an LTD, but i think its possible to capture just as good playability and tone out of some LTD's..

ESP>LTD&Schecter